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Author Topic: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3  (Read 9465 times)

Offline Veldanya Venalla

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Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« on: August 10, 2011, 01:28:43 AM »
Ok, so recently Blizzard has announced quite a few radical changes for Diablo 3.  This includes the addition of an auction house that you can use real money to purchase gear off of, you MUST be online and logged into battle.net to play Diablo 3 (and yes...this includes solo play) and apparently I also just read that skill trees are gone.  These are pretty serious things to announce as the release gets closer and closer (yes no official date yet...but with beta about to start...safe to assume release will be end of '11/beginning of '12).  There IS another game currently in development (slated for holiday '11 release digitally) called Torchlight 2.

   Torchlight 2 http://www.torchlight2game.com/is being produced by the same company that made Torchlight 1 (currently available for PC, Mac, and XBLA) called Runic Games.  A number of D1/D2 developers are in Runic Games as well as Matt Uelman (prolly misspelled) the man responible for the musical scores of D1/D2, and WoW up to Burning Crusade.  I own Torchlight 1 for XBLA and I must say it is a pretty awesome game.  Yes it had its flaws (no multiplayer support, played similar to D1 in that you went down into a dungeon and kept going down levels until you finally fight the big end boss, limited capability for changing up talent specs) but I must say I believe all these issues are being addressed.  Multiplayer for free, single player is your choice (offline/online i mean) massive world to travel across, customizable character, etc etc.

I am interesed which of these two people are interested in.  I want to state the following though....this thread is NOT....i repeat NOT about which of the two will do better at release or anything like that.  I will not deny for even a second that in general sales....Diablo 3 will more then likely blow way past TL2...bigger fanbase...bigger company....more money...etc.  So with that being said....which game are you interested in and planning to purchase?  Me personally Im leaning very heavily towards TL2...I am honestly disappointed in the slew of changes that have suddenly been announced by Blizz and having played TL1 I feel that TL2 could be a good successor to what Diablo 2 gave gamers.
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Offline Veldanya Venalla

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2011, 01:39:06 AM »
Ok....here's a big selling point for TL2 I just read in one of the reviewes for the game from E3 (quoted directly from the reviews)

"But as impressive as all that is, the most exciting change, again, is the introduction of multiplayer. And Runic has done it right, with the ability to have a party of up to eight people over the Internet or a LAN. Players can drop in or drop out at any time and monsters will scale accordingly. Any loot you see on screen will be assigned only to you, so you won't have to worry about some miscreant snagging all the good items while you're busy laying low the hordes of evil. But you can always trade with someone who has the shiny trinket you want or drop an item on the ground and watch the scramble. Junkies rejoice!"

Well....both sound like pretty significant features desired by gamers and at least the LAN portion is lacking for D3.....

Edit:  Also...an interesting interview with Runic's CEO about "millions and millions of Torchlight copies pirated in china" and him commenting "thats fine with us"
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/06/09/e3-2011-torchlight-pirated-over-5-million-times-in-china-runic-ceo-thats-fine-with-us
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 01:45:50 AM by Jharm »
Religion and greed, cause millions to bleed.

Offline Cameron

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2011, 02:59:00 AM »
To be completely honest? Probably neither of them. At least not at first.

Blizzard has me pissed off enough about some of their recent decisions that I have decided to stop giving them my money. If I play Diablo 3, it will be pirated and cracked.

I never played Torchlight 1, so Torchlight 2 will definitely not be a day 1 purchase for me, especially with so many other good games (40K Space Marine, Arkham City, Skyrim, SWTOR, Mass Effect 3, Assassin's Creed Revelations, just to name a few) coming out in the coming months. I'll probably wait for a price drop and possibly pick up Torchlight 1 before buying 2.

Offline Shadow Chorus

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2011, 05:59:45 AM »
I'm honestly looking at both of them, though with the recent changes I'm definitely leaning more towards buying Torchlight first. It definitely was more in line with Diablo 2 when it came out first, and the new one should be even closer, and is even fully moddable, because they're releasing the complete toolset they used to create the game. Feasibly, you could create the entire game over again with the toolset, or change any detail you wish.


Custom player models ftw!

Offline Kitharsis

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2011, 10:12:39 AM »
All of the Diablo 3 grumblings haven't really swayed me that much.

My computer is always always online.  If its turned on its online.  That's why I have FIOS.  The always online thing is a moot point for me.  And yes, there will be days when FIOS is down for some reason.  Shit I'll just go read a book then, cause I can't even watch tv when the internet is down (NetFlix).

Real Money Auction House!  Have you played any D2 on battle.net lately?  I started a new character and created a public game cause beating imps in the face with a club is better with company.  Within seconds 7 bots joined the game and spammed the chat demanding that I go to their website to buy items and gold.

I was not amused.

If the RMAH can solve this problem I'm all for it.  And OooOoo, I found a rare thing that I can sell for 50 bucks!  Probably won't happen and it won't be why I play but that would be kinda neat.

So in case you were wondering, yes, I'll be buying Diablo 3.  Maybe even first day purchase.


I've played Torchlight 1.  I liked it, but I never got very far.  It just couldn't hold my attention very long.  Regardless I might pick up Torchlight 2 sometime depending on reviews and if there is a sale.

Offline Veldanya Venalla

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2011, 09:02:24 PM »
I never played Torchlight 1, so Torchlight 2 will definitely not be a day 1 purchase for me, especially with so many other good games (40K Space Marine, Arkham City, Skyrim, SWTOR, Mass Effect 3, Assassin's Creed Revelations, just to name a few) coming out in the coming months. I'll probably wait for a price drop and possibly pick up Torchlight 1 before buying 2.

Just so you know TL1 is $15 for PC/Mac (i believe about the same for XBLA) and I believe that was how much it has always cost...and according to the offical TL2 FAQ TL2 will cost a one time fee of $20-30....so compared to most video games it wont be too bad.  I hear ya though on the number of games....lookin at pretty much all those and add in Rage and Deus Ex Revelations...dunno about Assassin's Creed Revelations and ME3 isnt due until March so still got time....havent read if Arkham City has an official release date.

Kith...i've read people commenting about how horrible bots/farmers were for D2...thing is...they will be there in D3 and in even greater force cause....its legal!  I honestly feel that this means that your suggested rare thing might sell for $50 at release...but give it like a month if that and the market will plummet as the gold farmers pretty much seize control.  Also dont forget that if you sell anything and have the money sent to anything other then your Battle.Net account...blizzard gets their cut (at this time they have not stated how much of a cut they will get).  Also I am willing to bet the bots will still be spamming chat but instead of directing you to a site it will probably be more along the lines of "Looking for a new weapon?  Just posted X item for Y gold!  Get it while its cheap!". 

Also an issue I have with the online requirement is this...I read a post someone made shortly after the announcement was made for D3 mentioning how their decision to force people to have to be online even to play single player completely screws over members of the military.  I know for a fact that getting any kind of internet while deployed is incredibly hard and even when you do have it its pretty weak and better to use that time to try and talk to your family. 

For SC2 I believe you are able to play offline (has the option but you need to validate your copy and I havent gotten around to doing that to see if anything single-player side is affected) now why in the hell could this not have been repeated for D3?  one word (well abbreviation i guess actually) .....RMAH.....I honestly feel that Blizz wants the RMAH to be incredibly awesome and reviews and such hail it as the newest innovation for gaming...I am a massive Blizzard fan (hell WC2 is what got me into gaming in the first place) but I grow tired of being screwed over by companies so they can try to be the next greatest thing.  Blizzard has already left its mark in gaming history with...well...all of its games!  If they allowed people to play offline their RMAH prolly wouldnt see anywhere near the kind of business its going to, so they gotta force it into our face figuring people will eventually break down and try it ("Well...I need this final armor piece for this set...I guess i can see if its on the RMAH...hey it is!  Well...its only X dollars....just this once...")  So for doing that....for the first time EVER...i will not be buying a blizzard game on release (quite possibly at all even). 

So instead I will go to Runic Games and give them money and get TL2, hell the Engineer class they have visible on their site (next class is revealed tomorrow) looks freaking awesome!  Also then maybe I convince certain other people to get the game and we can LAN it up....when we arent in SWTOR lol.

...also...I think this may be the longest post I've ever made lol (not counting the stuff I put into the fiction section)
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 09:07:23 PM by Jharm »
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Offline Cameron

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2011, 10:05:53 PM »
Its not really lack of money that I'm worried about. it's lack of time. Especially if you count Skyrim, cause I expect that to eat up my entire holiday season.

Offline Veldanya Venalla

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2011, 10:47:57 PM »
ahh...lack of time....now THAT i can agree with :-p never enough of that to go around it seems...
Religion and greed, cause millions to bleed.

Offline Shadow Chorus

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2011, 05:29:41 AM »
hey, if there was, everything would run smoothly. Where's the fun in that, right?

Offline Kitharsis

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2011, 01:59:26 PM »
All of your arguments and reasoning are very valid Jharm. 

I'm more going to buy the game for the story.  I'll definitely play through single player first.  Just create a game, password protect and bam, single player.  Hopefully the RMAH and spammers don't ruin the multi-player experience.  Time will tell.

There are unfortunate side effects to all of Blizzard's decisions, I won't disagree with that.  They've made great games in the past and I'm hoping they can pull through on this as well.


Also, you're making things very difficult.  I haven't looked into Torchlight 2 at all and you're describing something I clearly want to play.  If Diablo 3 or Torchlight 2 come out around the SWTOR release I will get no sleep ever.

Offline Archdemon Stu

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2011, 04:54:05 PM »
Torchlight 1 was somewhat lackluster and repetitive, and had a plot as strong as, "Hey two people I don't know.  Oh no, one of you turned bad!  The other one and I should pal around now.  That Alric guy's a dick!  And so is that giant monster I've only heard of!" for how utterly long that game is, that is the utmost of story development that occurs, and I hope the same writers aren't on for Torchlight 2.  The gameplay for is was really sluggish and clunky I thought, and from what I've seen of Torchlight 2, not much has changed in that aspect.  It had a few new innovations, but it was Diablo II, with a ridiculous interface and a dumb pet that was constantly dying and a man with a strange accent constantly letting me know so.  Torchlight 2 should have more money to fulfill a bit more of their true potential, so I'll probably end up trying it, but there's not a single question in my mind that I'm going to play the crap out of Diablo 3. 

People always try to speculate about Blizzard games, and put up all these arguments against game mechanics that, at first, seem sketchy.  And every time, Blizzard shows they actually know what they're doing in game design far better than those who play it.  The AH with real money system: who cares?  If somebody wants to spend money, let them.  Battle.net isn't cheap to maintain, and if you want updates, you need some sort of revenue coming in.  Killing of the gear pirating online where people who hack into accounts and whatnot and making profit from it seems like a damn good idea to me.  It's going to occur either way.  It may as well pay for the server costs.  Besides, I'm not playing with those dildos online.  I have a group of buddies I'm going to play pretty exclusively with, so while Blizzard's getting paid by farmers, I'll be enjoying the smooth servers.  Private games will be allowed, you don't have to go to the RMAH at all.  You don't have to deal with people who've spent hundreds of dollars on RMAH at all.  And frankly, even without all that, I absolutely despise other Blizzard gamers, so I wouldn't associate with them anyway.

And skill trees aren't a flawless system.  I have no problems whatsoever with them finding alternate avenues of approach.  Every game has them now as though it's expected of them, even if they're completely sloppy in execution.  Runes, gear, craftable items, companions that don't suck, equipment for them, etc. etc. etc... there's plenty of customization.  I will not miss the skill tree.

I look at gameplay trailers for Torchlight 2, and I'm wondering when something's going to happen.  I look at gameplay trailers for D3, and I pop a nerd boner.  Blizzard hasn't failed me once ever since I can remember; I won't bail on them now.  Pre-purchased limited edition and all.

Offline Veldanya Venalla

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2011, 07:48:52 PM »
in TL1's defense...Runic games had but a fraction of the money available blizz had even for games such as Diablo 2, I never had issues with my pet dying (try keeping him off of aggressive cause if they are on aggressive they WILL rush headlong into massive groups and pull all aggro before you can do anything...)  Yes the storyline wasnt some massive epic thing but im not playing the game expecting such...I play it so i can go into cool looking areas and slaughter lots of critters and loot their shiny stuff :)  Of course having some kind of reason for doing this is a major plus, and I do think the storyline for TL1 accomplished this.  Course everyone has different things they want from games and such so not trying to attack you Jorumn :)

You gotta understand something Jorumn....I am probably one of the biggest Blizz fanboys I know,  I have played WoW since a month after initial release.  I am one of those guys who was always behind blizzard even if their changes in WoW seemed dumb or didnt make sense...and yes...most of the time it did turn out well.  The thing here is that neither of the two big decisions (RMAH and online required) I feel are going to turn out well.  1)  People were already pissed off when they did it with SC2 and yet they do the same thing with D3 (and i already pointed out how they dont need to force it to be online only if they are going for anti-piracy) 2)  The RMAH concept I feel will be something that will be forced down gamers throats...hence why online is required to play.  The RMAH will not eliminate peoples accounts being hacked...hell all it means is that if you get hacked (and lets say you play both D3 and WoW) that the hacker gets a double payday possibly.) My biggest concern is also the idea that they are now fully allowing the sale of digital gear...I fear that in time it will cross over to WoW, and even though I may be quitting WoW for SWTOR....if WoW does it...then other MMO's will start looking at doing it...and then its all down hill from there...
Religion and greed, cause millions to bleed.

Offline Archdemon Stu

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2011, 12:25:51 PM »
Don't worry, I haven't misinterpreted anything as an attack.  This is just a jolly ol' debate. :P

Thing is "low budget" kind of gets them off on a lot of excuses for a terrible plot and shakey game mechanics.  I'm aware of the pet functions, but as a melee character, the pet is entirely useless to me even with upgrades.  It gets cleaved, dead.  A fireball nicks it, dead.  It gets looked at, dead.  And the notification man lets me know every time with no option of shutting him up or murdering my pet once and for all.  If it isn't dying, it's hanging back doing absolutely jack crap.   They pretty much shove the pet down my throat.  It feels like when I go to attack something, it takes about 1 second longer than it should to actually attack something.  It feels sluggish, like my character is always under the effects of a slow debuff of some sort.  As for story, it's quite epic, it's just not good.  You're fighting giant monsters in caves that corrupt people "just because they do."  The few characters there are (Sil and Alric pretty much) are boring and have cookie-cutter personalities.  They could have made it much more intense for the hero to be hunting Alric down.  One thing I did like was some of their randomized events with switches and whatnot, as they were pretty well made.

Fact is, there are numerous benefits besides anti-piracy to having people online for their games.  It upsets me a bit, since yeah, it fucks soldiers over in Afghanistan and whatnot, but at the same time, there are very few places these days that can't get an internet connection.  As for the RMAH, my point is that everyone is jumping to a lot of conclusions about it without having even seen it in action.  People condemn a system they haven't seen before, saying it will do this and it will do that, like Blizzard's teams haven't thought all of these through at great length and actually done research and statistics on it.  So even though it's a feature that can be completely ignored and does not have to effect you whatsoever, and has a good chance of being perfectly fair and effective anyway, people outrage and disregard the rest of the game Blizzard's creating because of small details like that.

The only thing that really holds water at this point is the fact that you have to connect to the internet.  If that's the price I have to pay for the rest of the game, I'll gladly pay it.

Offline Kitharsis

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2011, 03:27:58 PM »
Know what I do with the App store on my iPhone?

I look for all the free games and download them, not feeling guilty because I spent zero dollars on some crap that I will delete in ten minutes because its lame.  I haven't bought an iPhone game ever, and I don't think I ever will.

This is what I'll probably be doing with the RMAH, and what a lot of people will be doing, I assume.

In Diablo 2 gold wasn't really a big deal.  Before the increased the stash size I'd always have a surplus to gamble with.  It just wasn't important past level 1 where you needed two tomes and some identify scrolls.  I'm anticipating that the gold side of the auction house will make those shiny coins important for once.  No more refreshing the gambling window eleven million times until something I might want pops up, buying it, then getting pissed when a blue item of durability shows up in my inventory.  Now I can go on the Auction House and hopefully get that last piece of the set I need.  Or if I'm tired of running bosses looking for an item for my Monk I can sell all the sorceress crap that dropped in the last few runs for gold.  With that gold I could buy a sweet unique to take names and kick ass with.

The only reason I would buy something with cash on the auction house is if I sold something for cash on it beforehand.  So if one of those sorceress items turns up to be worth 5-XX dollars I can low ball and get it sold quick, then with my accumulated cash I can rule the world!!!  Or just buy something on the AH like a good boy.  If Blizzard makes .001 cents off of my transaction then that's awesome.  That's better than another 15 dollar subscription fee.


Long story short, I don't understand what all the hate is about the Auction House.  Cash or whatever, if D3 didn't have some form of an Auction House I would be very, very disappointed.

Offline Veldanya Venalla

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2011, 07:58:14 PM »
an ingame currency AH is 100% fine...hell its about time (no pun there...) that they put something like that in.  The issue with the RMAH is that for year and years blizz has been anti-real money for digital gear then suddenly its legal cause they can make money off it.  My honest worry is that if it takes off in D3....how long until they try it out in WoW/Titan or hell...any other company decides to try it in their MMO.  Its just that it seems kinda...i dunno underhanded i guess to spend so many years and so much time combating farmers and such and with D3...they are now pretty much welcoming them with open arms, its almost like a slap in the face to people like me who deal with the spammers/bots in WoW, report them only to see said spammer/bot still around days later.  Also this might mean you will see more botters/farmers showing up in multiplayer games if D3 works similar to D2 (the more people in the game, more loot drops and also better quality) and with loot being visible only to the person who gets it...it would make plain sense for farmers to want to be in full games to try and get the best gear to put on the AH.  Yeah both the RMAH and the online requirement might turn out ot be ok, but me personally....im holding off on buying it til after it releases and has been out for a bit at the very least.
Religion and greed, cause millions to bleed.

Offline Veldanya Venalla

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2011, 11:10:21 AM »
Well runic games (creators of TL 1 ans 2)prolly have announced TL2 will cost $20 and the classes will be Outlander, berserker, engineer, and embermage.  No official release date yet but they arw still planning on 2011 release
Religion and greed, cause millions to bleed.

Offline Veldanya Venalla

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2011, 10:13:00 PM »
oh and something that got mentioned that ive completely forgotten about for TL2....Runic is releasing the dev tools with the game...this means that everything they used to create the game will be available to the player.  New quests, new classes, new appearances....you name it....you can probably do/make it.
Religion and greed, cause millions to bleed.

Offline Veldanya Venalla

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Re: Torchlight 2 vs Diablo 3
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2011, 08:45:13 PM »
So some news I've found out recently....
a)  It sounds like TL2 has been officially/unofficially (seeing as how no release date has ever been officially provided) delayed until 2012 via an announcement on TL2 official site
b) 3 music track teasers have been released to a bunch of fan sites, here are links to them:
http://4fansites-ftp2.de/torchlight/sonstiges/promo_vulturepass.ogg
http://www.diablopodcast.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/promosteppes.ogg
http://www.runicgamesfansite.com/promoact3day.mp3 Act 3 music
Or if you want it all via one link here ya go
http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/tl2-media-event-coverage-matt-uelmen-music
Religion and greed, cause millions to bleed.