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Author Topic: Questions on "The Warp"  (Read 14440 times)

Offline Archdemon Stu

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Questions on "The Warp"
« on: August 31, 2010, 07:27:38 AM »
To conclude Jorumn's history and throw him into the story a little easier, I'm intending on having him open a Warp Gate, though by unconventional means (if there's a conventional way) in order to escape his world.  I don't want to put out details, since I want whoever reads the history to read it unspoiled, but I have a massive power source, and a fairly plausible way to protect him physically and mentally as he goes through it.  It will be a one-time thing that he won't likely be able to repeat, and he'll come out the other side in... well, not the best of conditions.

I don't want to butcher any previously written things about the Warp when I do this, so I want to make sure I have everything down.  My questions are:

-What is required to create a Warp Gate?

-How long could a mortal human with a strong will and powerful magics survive it unprotected? (He won't be unprotected, but just for reference.)

Any additional info would be helpful too.

Offline Veldanya Venalla

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2010, 11:18:56 AM »
Well generally speaking all of the characters can open Warp Gates (its the most used method people use to bring their characters to specific locations.   If you want to research the Warp a good place to start is Warhammer 40k websites, especially ones that cover the Chaos Space Marines armies (they call the Warp and more specifically the Eye of Terror home).  Completely unprotected....he would prolly be torn asunder in short order.
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Offline Soul Reaver

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2010, 12:10:32 AM »
To conclude Jorumn's history and throw him into the story a little easier, I'm intending on having him open a Warp Gate, though by unconventional means (if there's a conventional way) in order to escape his world.  I don't want to put out details, since I want whoever reads the history to read it unspoiled, but I have a massive power source, and a fairly plausible way to protect him physically and mentally as he goes through it.  It will be a one-time thing that he won't likely be able to repeat, and he'll come out the other side in... well, not the best of conditions.

I don't want to butcher any previously written things about the Warp when I do this, so I want to make sure I have everything down.  My questions are:

-What is required to create a Warp Gate?

-How long could a mortal human with a strong will and powerful magics survive it unprotected? (He won't be unprotected, but just for reference.)

Any additional info would be helpful too.

Actually, 'The Warp' as I generally refer to it isn't the same 'Warp' that exists in Warhammer 40k - that is to say, it's not the home of the Chaos Gods, and isn't affected by the 'real' universe(s) in the slightest (this is because I want to avoid anchoring the cosmology of the Board Battles in any pre-established universe).

The Warp is the polar opposite of the stuff that makes up a 'real' universe, which is why normal matter entering it is typically annihilated almost instantly, and why physics etc are irrelevant there.  Normal Universes float within the warp protected by a sort of film or barrier of 'reality', which prevents the Warp from spilling in and destroying that Universe.  Although you might want to use the analogy of a bubble, it's not really accurate - that barrier doesn't exist at the 'edges' of a Universe (there's no such thing) - rather, it permeates all of that Universe's existence.

Opening a Warp Gate can occur through a variety of means, and sometimes small Warp Gates even occur spontaneously, since the reality membrane's strength and thickness tends to fluctuate.  However, reality abhors these sorts of tears, so they tend to mend themselves extremely quickly.

To open a Warp Gate that is large and stable enough to allow a person to pass through requires something that can breach reality itself - typically this requires a huge expenditure of energy (either magical or technological) that not just bends, but actually rips a hole into time and space.  Mortals CAN open Warp Gates - powerful Dark Sorcerers from the Mortal Plane, for example, briefly create Warp Gates when they summon Daemons or cast the Warpstorm spell.  Nonetheless, these spells tend to be very exhausting and time consuming to cast (and summoning a Daemon is easier than opening a stable Gate able to accommodate a person).

Surviving the Warp requires the use of Warp Shields, and normal mortals rarely have the skills and endurance required to erect and maintain those.  Without them, a mortal's chances of survival in the Warp are zero.  If they do manage to erect some Warp Shields, the amount of time they'd need to stay up for simply depends on how 'long' the mortal stays in the Warp - since time, space, and distance is irrelevant there, this could range from as little as a split-second to as long as an eternity.  Most regular Warp Travellers have an instinctual sense for the Warp, and can travel to their desired exit (where they must create a second Warp Gate) in a few seconds, but someone without that skill would be throwing their fate completely to chance.

Overusing Warp Shields might lead to them collapsing, so even Warp Travellers tend to avoid using Warp travel if it can be avoided, and they tend not to be able to predict precisely where they will end up either (they tend to get it fairly close, but not on the dot).

Also, note that Warp Shields will protect a person's physical body, but there is still a lot of mental trauma associated with entering the Warp unprepared.  That doesn't mean that it's guaranteed to drive you mad, but it's certainly capable of doing so, particularly for someone who hasn't taken careful precautions and learned about the Warp beforehand.

« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 04:45:19 PM by Soul Reaver »

Offline john greymore

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2010, 01:09:54 AM »
Actually, a thought came to me. If you're already insane and you enter the warp, can you become sane? Or at least have a brief sensation of being sane? Or would it be like the second law of thermodynamic (All things tend to become more chaotic over time) and thus you could thrive in that environment?
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Offline Archdemon Stu

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2010, 04:43:11 AM »
That is exactly what I needed to know.  Thank you very much!

Offline Cameron

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2010, 08:54:03 AM »
Keep in mind that although everything Soul has said here is accurate, I have taken some liberties with the Eye of Terror.

Unlike in the true 40K universe, the Eye doesn't exist inside the Warp, nor is it a gateway to the Warp. Instead, the Eye is actually the result of the Gods of Chaos pumping pure Warp energy from the Warp into this plane of reality, thus creating a huge pocket of Warp space. It's held in place by the sheer will of the four Gods within an almost impenetrable ring of Warp storms, and continues to increase in size as they continue to pump in more energy. This is why normal mortals (Such as the Chaos Marines or the invading Space Marines in the campaign) are able to survive in it. However, due to the high concentration of Warp energy, reality breaks down the closer you get to the center, effecting everything from matter to physics to even the genetic code of a mortal, the latter of which causes rampant mutation in those who live there. Even being near the Eye (Such as the Cultists on Cadia) are effected by this in the long term.

Offline Soul Reaver

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2010, 04:47:55 PM »
Actually, a thought came to me. If you're already insane and you enter the warp, can you become sane? Or at least have a brief sensation of being sane? Or would it be like the second law of thermodynamic (All things tend to become more chaotic over time) and thus you could thrive in that environment?

I don't think sanity works like that.

Whether someone going in comes out mad or sane is really up to the individual, but if someone's already nuts then passing through the Warp isn't likely to be very therapeutic.

Also, I'd say that no creatures composed of 'real' matter could ever 'thrive' in the Warp.  Insane or not, you need Warp Shields to survive, and if you haven't got them, you cease to be.

Offline Danyael

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2010, 11:13:50 AM »
Actually, a thought came to me. If you're already insane and you enter the warp, can you become sane? Or at least have a brief sensation of being sane? Or would it be like the second law of thermodynamic (All things tend to become more chaotic over time) and thus you could thrive in that environment?

I don't think sanity works like that.

Whether someone going in comes out mad or sane is really up to the individual, but if someone's already nuts then passing through the Warp isn't likely to be very therapeutic.

Also, I'd say that no creatures composed of 'real' matter could ever 'thrive' in the Warp.  Insane or not, you need Warp Shields to survive, and if you haven't got them, you cease to be.

I think things may have been a little overanalyzed, sir. Let's take it to a different context. Remember that none of the companions are from the same universe, thus the warp could affect the individual in a means adaptable to their own abilities, yes?  :-\
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Offline Cameron

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2010, 12:00:36 PM »
I think things may have been a little overanalyzed, sir. Let's take it to a different context. Remember that none of the companions are from the same universe, thus the warp could affect the individual in a means adaptable to their own abilities, yes?  :-\

No. The Warp is one of the very very few things that is static across all universes, as it is literally the glue that binds the universes together to make the Multiverse. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to use it to travel from universe to universe. So the Warp, as described, works the same way in all universes.

Offline john greymore

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2010, 01:00:13 PM »
Oh cool, that's good to know, thanks! Never thought of that though Danyael, kinda sad it's not true (Imagine the possibilities!!)

A bit hard to grasp the concept of how the warp works though. Soul, you say that it's something like a bubble analogy but not quite... I'm thinking something along the lines of tight clinging plastic on food, the kind that doesn't let any air or whatnot contaminate it, as an analogy for the barrier that allows the world to exist... but the warp would still have to permeate it, so I'm thinking the air that's already trapped inside the plastic would represent the never ending presence of the warp.

How's that sound?
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Offline Cameron

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2010, 01:30:21 PM »
When I finally get around to posting the Epic Battle Character Creation guidelines, I'm going to be posting a great deal of information about the Warp and how it works from a character creation standpoint. Hoping that this thread and that should clear up any issues with it.

Offline Archdemon Stu

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2010, 02:16:23 PM »
Yay!  I touched on an issue that needed touching!

Offline Faidth

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2010, 03:29:49 PM »
Oh cool, that's good to know, thanks! Never thought of that though Danyael, kinda sad it's not true (Imagine the possibilities!!)


There are very few things in Epic BB that are static. Personally, I think it makes sense for the Warp to fulfill the need for a constant. It serves as the deus ex machina for why people from different universes can exist in one together. There are thousands of other ways to individualize a character, but the rules regarding the Warp have been a generally accepted truth since its inception.

Offline Danyael

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2010, 10:47:14 AM »
The question didn't come out the way I meant. But nevermind.
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Offline Soul Reaver

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2010, 05:53:33 PM »
If you're interested in some additional reading explaining 'The Warp', here's a crash-course on the setting from the "To the Bitter End" manual: http://www.familykrieg.com/tothebitterend/manual.htm#Setting

I think it's the best overall summary I've got at the moment.

Offline john greymore

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2010, 12:18:58 AM »
I'm writing up my Epic BB's storyline and one thing led to another and I think I may have just broken a hundred thousand rules of the warp.

What I imagined was that my character's reality relied on a style of going about things. Would it be okay to say that when this rule is broken too many times, reality falls apart and the warp can enter? This is without any magic, nor without any technology, although I'm thinking of 'drawing up the essence of the world', something like feeling Mother Nature around you and absorbing all the goodness of low fat high calcium milk from it.

I also realise that the warp is static, so I'm willing to rewrite if it's not allowed.
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Offline Soul Reaver

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2010, 02:37:42 AM »
I'm writing up my Epic BB's storyline and one thing led to another and I think I may have just broken a hundred thousand rules of the warp.

What I imagined was that my character's reality relied on a style of going about things. Would it be okay to say that when this rule is broken too many times, reality falls apart and the warp can enter? This is without any magic, nor without any technology, although I'm thinking of 'drawing up the essence of the world', something like feeling Mother Nature around you and absorbing all the goodness of low fat high calcium milk from it.

I also realise that the warp is static, so I'm willing to rewrite if it's not allowed.

You can't rewrite how the WARP works, but if you make up a setting (eg, make a Plane), you can decide on how THAT works.

So for example, maybe in your Plane there are certain laws of physics that 'should' be obeyed so that the fabric of reality remains intact, like for example, you're not allowed to make any CircleSquares (squares that are also circles at the same time).

However, unlike other Universes, the laws of physics in your Universe could be broken (perhaps given some effort), and so, because someone makes a CircleSquare factory, the fabric of reality is weakened and the whole factory causes reality to collapse and form an uncontrolled Warp Gate (which would likely soon close once the CircleSquare factory is gone, much to the disappointment of all the CircleSquare factory shareholders).

Nothing wrong with having a Plane work like that (though if it's too easy to break the 'rules' you'd probably end up with Warp Gates everywhere, which wouldn't be good).  Just be aware that the same thing probably wouldn't work elsewhere.

Offline john greymore

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2010, 04:22:43 AM »
What if it's something metaphysical? Essentially what I'm having is that once a person dies the soul disappears, and a new one is made from scratch. By recycling the soul too many times (10000 over times), the fabric can't take it and, like how friction eventually causes a burn, the constant transportation of this soul eventaully tore a warp gate.

Would seem a bit ludicrous, but even a warp gate that can't be self repaired by the reality would be devastating here since no one knows how to fix it in this reality (they don't know the warp exists essentially).
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Offline Soul Reaver

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2010, 04:38:58 AM »
What if it's something metaphysical? Essentially what I'm having is that once a person dies the soul disappears, and a new one is made from scratch. By recycling the soul too many times (10000 over times), the fabric can't take it and, like how friction eventually causes a burn, the constant transportation of this soul eventaully tore a warp gate.

Would seem a bit ludicrous, but even a warp gate that can't be self repaired by the reality would be devastating here since no one knows how to fix it in this reality (they don't know the warp exists essentially).

Like I said, your universe, your rules.  If that's what it takes to tear the fabric of reality asunder in that universe, then that's what it takes.  When I said that each universe has its own 'laws of phyics', I basically just meant the rules that it operates by.  That includes metaphysical things like afterlives, ghosts, gods and so on.

For the most part I would suggest that most realities have 'self repair' abilities though - that's why it's so energy-intense to hold a Warp Gate open, as you're trying to hold reality itself at bay.  While some occurrences would cause reality to tear, if the reality didn't reassert itself on its own, it would end up being full of holes.  The Warp flowing into a real universe would soon destroy everything near it, so that would be a very Bad Thing.

But again, it's your choice.  If that Plane's fabric of reality is very fragile and not able to reassert itself if damaged, then that, too, can be one of its unique laws of physics.

Offline john greymore

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Re: Questions on "The Warp"
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2010, 05:35:37 AM »
Thanks! Just what I needed to know :)
Destruction begets Creation. Creation begets Interaction. Interaction begets Society. Society begets Use. Use begets Destruction.

Thus the cycle begins and ends.